Opera Bluffs The Podcast
Opera Bluffs The Podcast
Operapussy: License to sing - The Margery Booth Story
Eimear tells the other Bluffs about the incredible Margery Booth.
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It's the hanging off your nose thing has no one else seen the penis. You know what I mean? It's like, don't do it. So now all I see when people have their noses are just, everyone's like face penises[inaudible]
Speaker 2:Oh my God. On so much pain. So I had two crowns only took what should have taken like half an hour for them just to fit two crowns on took about two and a half hours. Cause they kept on putting more anesthetic in me, which meant that when, when it did work, they were really going for it. So I'm really like,
Speaker 1:Oh my God, it's so painful anyway. And have you got that thing where you could go through your own cheek by accident?
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah, I will. Totally, totally. In fact, they made me do a, an impression and I was like, I'm sure I'm biting Donald flesh. I know that was good. I wasn't there. It's fine. But um, what's uh, what, what, what's a crowd. Yeah.
Speaker 1:It's like a little hat for your tooth, but uh, like what, I've been extremely fortunate with my teeth, like knock wood, but I, uh, I had my first feeling like last year.
Speaker 2:Oh geez. Yeah. I had my first crown when I was 23. So
Speaker 1:you. My sister is the same as you. What a horrible experience in the dentist. Right? I had feelings as a child. Like I remember having to get for this as a kid, so I don't know what I was doing to my teeth or what I was eating considering it was the eighties and my mom at badly numbers. I don't know how I managed to throw a hole in my own tooth. But, um, I, uh, yeah, but also like cereal had sugar in it and I was allergic to milk. So it wasn't a chocolate, honestly, the most miserable childhood ever. Oh my goodness. But my granny did a special trip to Dublin to buy me a Cara bag or a goat's milk egg for Easter. Connor got to sit there with all these like dairy milk capris with the mug eggs. And I'd be like, Oh no, it's like, goat's milk egg. You know, you're like, that is not the same. Goat's milk. Eggs are not the same lads. And then it turns out I was allergic to goats milk eggs. Anyway. So then I was put onto carrot, which has even less like chocolate, the goat's milk, egg. And yeah. So it should have just given you a Friday, maybe a desperation. I, at that point, just throw next day, all my own juice. But the point is not that I had wholly teeth as a child, you know, when you're in the dentist chair. Right. And then they're like, Oh, just breathe normally. And suddenly you forget how the you ever breathe ever before. It's like absolutely. Or where
Speaker 3:Your tongue normally is.
Speaker 1:Oh, where does your tongue go? So far back in your own mouth that you're cutting off the air supply to your nose. Hey, is that I was like, I'm going to die. It's like, why is my note stopped working? They're going to let it happen. Obviously I've been designed wrong.
Speaker 3:I got a adorable, she was doing some work on one side of my mouth. And then she said to the assistant, Oh look, she's trying to help with her tongue. So she had to leave.
Speaker 1:That's really funny. Yeah. So I did, Oh my God. I need a dentist in the head once actually by accident while he was drunk. Yeah. It was another feeling thing. It was so weird. Right. Because you only ever, unless you may go to the dentist in a emergency, I think since I've been a kid, dad used to say like, well, I go regularly. But like by regularly, I mean like, so like have you been to the dentist? You're like, no. Um, yeah, totally. Yeah. Yeah. Right. So when I was Netherland and I went more often because dad wouldn't annoy me about it. That's so true. I go, I go pretty much with that. Yeah. But your teeth. Right. But, um, I, since like moving to England and becoming an adult, uh, I only go when something is wrong. And uh, I know there is the element of the fact that like dad also pays. It's like, thanks. That's nice. No, it's very nice. Very lucky. Um, but anyway, Oh yeah. Right to get. So obviously I was in a lot of pain and whenever I needed to thing and this dentist, I can't remember what I don't like I was doing, but you know, when they push the chair back, that's the chair was so far back. I was practically upside down. I'm like, I'm not really sure why that was the angle. But I remember the blood rushing to my head. Like, yeah. So not only could I not breathe, I thought I had suddenly high blood pressure and I might die of a stroke. I was that upside down. And then he tapped me. He went to put the injection in the roof of my mouth and I felt it anyway. I flinched and beat him in the air as he was injecting me in the mouth. Right. Not the time to take the dentist out. And then he had to have a couple of minutes because I'd need him so hard. Well, I bet he never stabbed someone in the parish again, after that, I know it gave me such a fine anyway. Yeah. Don't need the dentist in the head. But then he shouldn't have had me up sit down idiot. And, but also, I don't think he realized how short I am so that my knees were much closer to his head. Oh yeah.
Speaker 4:She's at the, the thing I've been laying on because I'm quite tall. I pretty much off the end of it. And then my head's off my feet don't even come to the end. I also find it really hard to get on. You know, when you're like, Oh, I'll just, I'll just figure it, run at it because I'm not quite sure how to get on it. You know, the difference in deaths, um, dentists here, they don't have those full, um, swelling things. Do you have that in your dentist where they have like a little water? Yeah. They don't have that here. I haven't seen the dentist with it. You're supposed to do then
Speaker 1:They don't do it. They just do it all for, you know, they started out
Speaker 4:Whose hose you off and then suck it out. Sorry. I've just made myself sick.
Speaker 1:Welcome
Speaker 4:To isle pro Bluffs with me, Catherine Young with me
Speaker 1:And meany of Collins. Okay. Anyway, so yes, we have an upper bluff. So the opera bluff this week, the question we all want to know the answer to is what do I wear to the opera? Oh, I don't know
Speaker 4:Any opera house except for Glen. I don't know. Would exclude you if you weren't dressed. Right.
Speaker 1:One would exclude you mind you in saying that my dad came. I know that line boring. Doesn't exclude you because I showed up there off my Ryan air flight still with my carrier.
Speaker 4:But will you watching the show? Yeah, I was watching the rehearsal. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Mom and dad came to see me, um, at Glenburn it wasn't a rehearsal. It was opening night and my dad forgot his trousers. So
Speaker 4:I actually remember that thing.
Speaker 1:If there was a big panic that he wouldn't be allowed in because he didn't have, um, dress suit pants,
Speaker 4:Jim at school, was it best in palette? You can come in, but you're wearing vest.
Speaker 1:A member of the orchestra donated their pants to my dad.
Speaker 4:So they have like, Oh my God, like a store
Speaker 1:Of like orchestra pants in case that happens. Hence not underpants, obviously treasure pants in case that happens. Cause people forget their pencil trusses rock up and sorry, not it's not for January for the audience they gave them were so big.
Speaker 4:[inaudible]
Speaker 1:The whole time. It was so funny. But yes he did where, um, I don't know which member of the orchestra or whatever, but he did wear a pair of orchestra pants instead. So that was quite silly, but yes, but I think at Glyndebourne, cause it's in the middle of nowhere, you have to make such an effort to get there and you actually even get there. And then just in case like listeners don't know like line born is in the middle. Isn't like a fancy house in the country. Yeah. It's in an opera house. That's behind the big fancy house. Yeah. Yeah. Originally it would have been like, I imagine it is a magic place to go and that's not, it doesn't matter what class or creator who you are, but um, and part of that is the picnics and the dressing up and the yeah, and also
Speaker 3:Amazing scheme, is it under 35 or under that's amazing scheme. So you can get cheap tickets, really reasonably. And it's amazing thing to do with friends and stuff
Speaker 1:Terrible because they promote drinking quite heavily. Everyone's having a good time. But um, it wasn't the most fun thing I used to remember doing it. Glen, when there was the, um, school shows. Ah, so like know, I remember when we started doing them, my first go show, I was like, Oh God, they're going to be bored shitless. But then every time someone Snarks, they're all like, Ooh, Ooh. And you're like, so there's a bit of a stage kiss. The kids go mental. And then I remember doing a resell there and Yazoo, Bubba came out, but it's the second time she appears, you know, in the second act. So you know, that she's evil at that point. And then all the kids started booing. Like it was the panto that was pretty magical. And they were like here, here on stage, like all of the teachers in the audience trying to like shut the kids up. Ah, and then every time that Prince got booed, cause he runs off at the fired princess at the end of act two. And they were like, boom. I say ran off with, it was amazing retired. There was a bit of a snob. They were like going mad. Um,
Speaker 4:Do you think that that's maybe like more authentic it's more opera? Yeah. When it was first written, isn't it true? That opera was like, it wasn't, it was for everyone.
Speaker 1:Oh, by the way, Mark, at times people came and they drank wine and watched and they came with their past and they did like when Kathy did the, um, Sony episode or whatever, like all that heckling in the fighting and the widget all happened, like people did. So the kids' performances are probably the closest thing you'll get to. There's so much fun. And I actually think it makes everybody work. Like it's like, because you get, you don't get the polite silence, you get an immediate reaction to what you've done. Like you play it up more. That's wonderful. Amazing. So the school's performing as much as you're like, Oh judges, they're not going to get it. Kids will buy anything, man. Cause they're sitting in school all day, eating Shakespeare. Do you know what I mean? So they're like, and then they get to watch people.
Speaker 4:I remember yet when we, we went to see Shakespeare, you know, we had to like study Shakespeare and then when you actually you've been studying it, like, and you're so bored, like, and then you
Speaker 1:Really badly it's you've not a phone. Oh my God. That's the worst. Isn't it? You're like, Oh great. Okay. And then you're like reading. Okay. Probably going to have to read this line. So you're like reading it in advance. You're like, I have no idea what just happened. Yeah. But seeing, so those kids probably also, I guess studied it maybe a little bit before they came, you know, because the teachers will be doing that. But anyway, there you go. So at that juncture, uh, I would love to hear your story. Okay. Newscast, Geneve, right? Like what am I actually here for? It's not that, um, can't talk to me like that is where you were my sister. So that was thought that was in my contract. Yeah. Oh, Oh. So, um, I need to, let me find my zone. I was having too much fun there. So this story, I'm going to throw it out there. It's really important. Okay guys, it's very important. Not that much crack. Why did you choose that? Because no, because it's important. Right? And you'll see why in a second. It's super important. And uh, yeah. I'm hoping to find some crack in it, but I don't know where that is yet. Okay. Here we go. Okay. Really important to know for crack. Okay. Don't know how long it will be and she's writing it down. Putting really important to know crack. The other thing about it is it's quite short and that will become apparent as well. In a minute, you can write down quite short near that. Fine. Quite sure. I'm just giggling because I actually wrote down really important, not cry and cry. Okay. Crack on. This is the story of a lady called Marjorie booth. Anybody heard of Marjorie booth before Marjorie booth was Metis soprano from Wigan known for its Metso Sopranos. It's it's not really anyone listening. I don't know if waken is Wigan as in the UK weaken the North is in the North. Right. And it's quite a distinctive accent. Wigan. I want to say, is it like Liverpudlian we thought it was Mancunian. Oh, okay. And it's Mancunian by the way. But it's Northern. Can somebody Google someone from Wigan talking who's from Wigan. This is a Wigan dialect poem.
Speaker 5:Great. Are we getting dialect for change? Well, we've left behind on being small and having no teeth[inaudible] schools on Sundays. Everyone gets roll speed. Things of Jane says George Orwell in 1936, we have men and women don't tell us you went up. All of it.
Speaker 1:Okay. Well we don't want to plagiarize. So that was a Wigand dialect polling poem called a bat Chang live by Terry Buttonwood from beyond Wigan pier, the musical act one concert debut like that was, um, on YouTube. Perfect. So Margie booth was born in Wigan right now. We know what Wiggins sound like.
Speaker 6:We go in ligands and measure. Um, so, but she began her training in Bolton, which I assume isn't very far away. And isn't for an NK from Bolton. I think so Phil Ks looks Phil. Okay.
Speaker 4:The comedian Peter. Kay. It was a comedian. Phil PCK. Yeah. There was a comedian Phil K. Not from, he's not from Bolton enough.
Speaker 6:Okay. So anyway, so she born in 1906 and then she began her operatic training a Bolton, but then she moved to London and began her training. And then in 1925, she won a scholarship to the Guildhall study opera. She then in 1928, um, she joined the burden's state opera and she started taking NAIC, I assume chorus, but small roles at Polaroid, which, for anyone who doesn't know is the home of foreigners, like a Faulkner's operas. It was established by Wagner to put on only it stuff. And that's
Speaker 4:Yeah, it's a purpose-built opera house for Wagner opera.
Speaker 6:Here's the thing about Wagner alpha, right? That by Roy was the first theater to put people in the dark and the orchestra pit underground. And have you like literally in the dark facing the stage because, Oh, that's interesting. Wagner. Didn't want to interrupt the drama on stage. So you put everybody in the dark so they could make, like we just said, eat and throw tomatoes or whatever. I dunno. Got drunk. Yeah.
Speaker 4:So before that, okay, wait, wait. So before that there would have been like the whole orchestra kind of like in between the stage and the audience,
Speaker 6:It might've been sunken a tiny bit, but not under the orchestra would have been much more prominent and lit up. So you would have, so the thing is back then, you would've seen the orchestra a lot more, but also, um, the orchestra obviously needed light, which was candle light. So the whole place would have been really bright Foglia was the first person to put the orchestra pit right under the stage so that the auditorium stayed in total darkness. So there was nothing to distract from. And that's weirdly how we now enjoy theater, but it was Wagner who did that? Just Siena his Wagner. He did that. Everybody that's amazing. He was such an egotist. He didn't want anybody to distract from his work and his like, yeah,
Speaker 4:They are very long though. You do need it. I mean, I don't need help concentrating, but four or five hours long, you can see where he was. Like, we can't have any distractions with this
Speaker 6:Anyway. So she joined the Portland state, opera and vibrate and she started to like, our star started to rise in Germany, started to become a big name. So in that special way, actually, which still sorta works today that she became big in Germany. And then in 1936 was invited back to England. She was good. No
Speaker 2:Offense because wait. So it took her a tiny amount of time compared to how it, how long it takes now. Jesus, how long was that only trained for three? She trained in 25. Oh, she trained for three years and 25. So she would have gone over in 28, maybe 29. So she takes a cup like four or five years to make it in Germany and then gets invited back. Yeah.
Speaker 6:I cheated a shed load of stuff at the, so this is mental right in 1936 alone. So this is one of those things where it's really difficult to find anything after this really. But, um, and that's partly to do with the war and stuff. Right. So obviously we're encroaching on the second world war at this point. But in 1936 alone, right. She debuted a cava garden. She paid Shoshi debuted in Rigoletto, Tosca, Meister singers. ParcelFact DAS Rheingold and the Taylor Hoffman or in one year. And what was the fast one? Rigoletto. She was Magdalena.
Speaker 2:All right. Was she met? Oh, you said she was
Speaker 6:Madalena in bigger letters. And then she was Magdalena in the mice, the singers. Um, and then she's so most of the singer is Parsifal and uh, death wrangled are all Wagner operas. So she obviously started to specialize. Like you can see a trend here for like big singing, but she was really famous for Carmen's apparently, but I couldn't find where the hell she was doing Carmen, but I know that she made her Royal Albert whole debut in 1935. And I don't know if that was a Carmen, but she was famous for Wagner and Carmen's
Speaker 2:That's I don't think you see many singers like that now. I don't think you do actually. Who does walk? No commons.
Speaker 6:Nobody, nobody. But she was said,
Speaker 2:Sorry, that's kind of niche repertoire stuff, but it's like,
Speaker 4:Mm, but you say Carmen's do you mean like busy's Carmen or do you mean Carmen? Is it
Speaker 6:Just being, there's only one Carmen in offer and that is BZ dare to ever write another one at the time. Here's another tidbit. Um, Carmen was a total flop when it was written. So really they died thinking he'd written an absolute. Oh
Speaker 4:No.
Speaker 6:And then it turns out to be probably the most well-known and most done opera. I think
Speaker 2:It's the most well-known isn't the most fun.
Speaker 4:Let me think. It might be like up there as the most well-known if you knew nothing about opera, you'd have heard of karma. That's true. And you'd know the imagery you'd think of like a woman in a dress
Speaker 6:And everybody knows that dah, dah, everyone even knows like, dude.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah. Like you might not even know what it is, you know, those things from, or you might not know why, you know yet, but I feel like it's a sort of culturally there somehow,
Speaker 1:But I mean, at the time, right back to what's your name guys? Who's paying attention. Marjorie Marjorie birthright, but it was, she was noted. It's the only flipping, this is the only thing I could find written, um, from a critic or whatever. But, um, she was noted as having a voice reminiscent of the old Italian school.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So Neve the Italian school is like based on this idea of Bel Canto.
Speaker 4:I mean, I understand that Bel Canto means beautiful singing, I guess, but like is what does it mean? Anything beyond that it's a particular
Speaker 1:That style
Speaker 4:It's different to all the other styles. It's a style of beautiful singing.
Speaker 3:What does it mean? Like a limpid sound maybe.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Heidi spun. I don't know. Pretty. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah. And then there's voices that are definitely more suited to park and barking, which is what you do involved in it. Like just to generalize massively in assaults everybody.
Speaker 1:Oh my God.
Speaker 3:Wagner opera is a very, very loud and very, very long. And, and generally speaking, the people that will sing them best are very physically large and they have voices of steel because they need to sing for hours and they need to be very loud to fill these massive auditoriums and just sing for hours. Like they it's, they're so long and they're very, very, very loud. It can overstate. So the
Speaker 4:Heavy machinery. Yeah. They're
Speaker 3:Heavy machinery. Exactly. Whereas with, with the Italian operas, it's more about spinning a line. Like you don't need to think,
Speaker 4:You feel like you've. Yeah. I think I get it. Here's the question, which might be really dumb, but perhaps someone else stupid like me is thinking it, um, is, is Wagner. Um, is that where like the whole imagery of like the horns that's where that comes from? Like, is this opera singer in the horns? Like our logo, which obviously I already, yeah,
Speaker 1:That is basically Wagner it's about Korea.
Speaker 4:I like the woman with the plants and stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Okay. Yes. So vulgar has a lot, we have a lot to be grateful to Wagner for that image of a woman for one. Yeah. So, um, anyway, so
Speaker 4:Marjorie mezzo, soprano from
Speaker 1:It. So she's singing away, um, in 1936, uh, doing all these great things, wherever whole COVID garden and doing lots of things in Berlin and by Roy, and then, sorry, I have to backtrack a little bit because I missed out a bit of a factoid that I probably should have, uh, included. And that is in 1933 was the first time that Margie booth met Hitler knew
Speaker 4:You were gonna S I, I saw, I just knew that Hitler was coming into this. I don't know how, but like, yeah. Okay, great.
Speaker 6:Yeah. So, um, she met Hitler, uh, because Hitler came backstage to say, Hey, after she was chosen to carry the Holy grail in this particular like parcel file at the end of Parsifal. And it was her caring, I think she must've been, she must've been a farming. Um, and in 1933,
Speaker 4:She don't know what any of that is.
Speaker 6:Just loads of parts like that. It's like the Valkyries it's like kind of a, so Louis, STI groupie sort of stuff. Um, okay.
Speaker 4:But either the, um, the only other thing that she could have sung in that Neve as a roll call country, and she wouldn't have done that the age that she would have been now, maybe I'm adopted anyway.
Speaker 6:But, um, she was the flower maiden. She was chosen to carry the Holy grail and Val and Hitler kind of fell in over there. He began
Speaker 4:That's impressive. Flower. Maiden is impressive. He began coming to all of them
Speaker 6:Or offers, um, he used to come backstage and visit her regularly. And on one occasion, special occasion, he sent her 200 red roses, all individually wrapped in swastikas.
Speaker 4:Wow. Did this real? Is this real?
Speaker 6:Oh, no, this is real. So this is very real. Um, and I I'll explain in a little while why this is so real, right?
Speaker 4:Why wouldn't it be real also, um, Hitler loved Bogner, Hitler loved I'm writing it down. That's really famous. Like everybody, that's a given thing. Like Hitler kind of, I know, obviously Wagner's not around, but do you think that would have been embarrassing for Vagner? No. Oh, no. He would've been all right with it. Oh no.
Speaker 6:December. He wrote lots of, um, essays on it. So he probably wasn't the greatest guy, but he also trusted, he only ever entrusted his music. I think this could be, but this is my memory from college. There was only one conductor. He ever trusted to conduct his music the same way, like as good as he does. And that conductor was Jewish. So, and his orchestra was full of Jewish like players. So he wrote all these things about the Jews. It was a bit like, um, I hate to say it, it did echo Hitler's ideologies about, um, or the Jews stood in society and whatever, but he was a complete hypocrite in the sense that when they were really exceptionally talented, he was totally willing to let that fly. Um, so I I'm probably imagining
Speaker 4:That Wagner was, um, no, he was long, like earlier I have his, I have his dates.
Speaker 6:There was long dead before the Nazis. No, he was before way before, way before, like 50 years before he was dead, but 50 years with him when the Nazis, but the Nazis used the Nazis used Bob news music as their propaganda music. And that's what, like,
Speaker 4:He did that with, um, quite a lot of things. I mean, we're, I really don't want to get into a whole big thing about like the Nazis Bush. Like, um, last week I was mentioning Nietzsche and like how interesting DJ is, but like Nietzsche's ideas were like super taken up by the Nazis as well. Like, um, actually apparently it was that like, I think like Nietzsche's sister actually orchestrated that in a way. And there's like, all these people arguing that me, Jay himself wouldn't have wanted it, but, but it did kind of fit with their, you know, like handling or if it just went with what they wanted it to do. And like, they would use it like in the Hitler era and that's a youth and like, it was like part of the education and everything. So I'd say the Vagner stuff was something similar where it's like, there's a lot of them
Speaker 3:Around the ideology of the stories that Wagner Wagner wrote his own Liberty. Right.
Speaker 4:And Wagner was German. Was he? Yes. Yes.
Speaker 3:But there are a lot, there's a lot about the purity of a family line. So it's not just like the Nazis took, it took Wagner's stuff. Like there was a reason why it was so closely allied and ideology. Okay. Okay. Okay.
Speaker 6:So, um, Oh yeah. So, um, she met Hitler, she was the flower made her maiden. Um, and then he came to, most of her performances sat in the same box. He visited her regularly and she, because in 1932, remember Hitler wasn't Hitler. Like Hitler was okay. He was beginning to be Hitler, but he wasn't Hitler Hitler. Like he was just a lot of like, so hang on, I have a little timeline thing here. Right? I'm going to fog her. Oh my God. I have to stop calling Hitler, Wagner and Wagner handler. That's not different podcasts. Hitler's timeline is in 1933, I was going to say he was president, but I think he was chancellors that term. Uh, in 1933, he became head of the party, head of the, whatever. Yes. So he was chancellor of Germany in 1933. He also put into motion. So, because Germany was so I don't mean to give people a like history lesson, but because Germany was so divided, right. Hitting her, managed to get through, um, this, uh, bill, making the chancellor a dictator. So the chancellor and the president, he merged them into one and he managed to get this, uh, this, the last route that meant that he would be a dictator for just four years, just for four years, the tiny four years. Don't worry about it too. Solidly the ship while Germany like unified, you know what I mean? And then got back together because there was many of the parties and there wasn't like it after world war one, when they lost the war, Germany was, you know, all over the place in terms of, yeah. We just need to make Germany good again. So you worry about, it's funny, isn't it? Because it terribly frightening. Frighteningly has echoes of today every day. But, um, anyway, so Hitler managed to pass this bill that made him chancellor and president and a dictator of Germany for four years. So yes. So this is what's happening at this time when Marjorie met him, how much at that point? Um, anybody knew by Hitler. I'm not sure. I actually don't know if people really understood. Was it Donald Trump just getting an argue rated and we're all going, Oh Jesus. But if Donald Trump showed up at the match, you'd be like, you know what I mean? Um, but, but Donald Trump, of course hasn't done anything. I hit it. But I wonder if that's the beginning, is this the beginning of Donald Trump's presidency that you're like, Oh, Hey, what's the harm. I'm just going to say, like, I think we'll make like copies
Speaker 4:CRI if we keep, keep drawing comparisons. Oh, it's fine with America. It's fine. I think it's good. Now that that's over, we can all read for the next four years until, until they come back the trumps, we can just, you can take your job out.
Speaker 6:It's good. It's all good. She became, so she married a German as well. She married a German called, um, doctor. He's not a medical doctor. He was the doctor of English thing. Um, and then became an actor, but they gone strong. Um, in 1936, she married him. He was a like big wig, German, social it air to a big German beer brewery, family loaded. So she was not only becoming a superstar in her own. Right. And also like the, the furor or whatever was mad into her. So everybody was mad into her. You know what I mean? Like she was, so he was into her, like in a, probably in a sexy way, I think, because he showed her an awful lot of attention. I didn't know where the lines are and it's not like, I'm not saying that she looked like, Oh, stop it. You can stop it afterwards. Because
Speaker 4:The first thing is probably the last thing, is it? Yeah. Okay.
Speaker 6:Google it. Right. So we will put it like that. Was she blonde? No, she wasn't actually,
Speaker 4:She wasn't. So I'm just wondering if she was like his area. Yeah,
Speaker 6:She absolutely. Wasn't his area ideal. Now she was his area. And ideally in the fact of the chief was brew Nash and gorgeous looking. Uh, so you you'll forget blonde, you can die a blonde, you know? I mean, even there good
Speaker 4:Luck.
Speaker 6:No, she wasn't like, yeah, but she was very good looking so very pretty, very charismatic, fluent in German. Uh, she's now married to a German socialite, big wig. Um, so she's moving and shaking and all of the right circles. Uh, I looked up, theaters went dark by the way, coming up to the war and they didn't go dark until like 1940 or 1941. It seems like quite late. Yeah. So they were still playing Madame butterfly at Covent garden in 1941 party. Wow. Also, apparently even though everyone would war with Germany, they were still playing lots of German opera and Wagner, whatever it, Britain didn't seem to quench the appetite for. I know, but I just think it's lovely and kind of match. And there's a recording of her and diamond ring from Roy in 1942. So she was, um, is it, is it floss Hilda, Hilda? Um, in 1942. So she was singing the whole way through, up until then. Um, obviously attended mainly by, not by atelier, but by Nazis. Um, and in 19
Speaker 4:I attended mainly by his name,
Speaker 6:Really sad. So bigwig in German society making, moving and shaking in the old German opera world, which is huge. Right. So that's a big deal. Um, her family in Wigan disowned her in 1941. Oh. Because of her associations, like, so her nationality was denied and all that or whatever that's called. Oh wow. Really? Wow. And then hit there, gave her his, um, personal assurances that he would always protect her from Britain and that he would like that she was German or whatever. And she would be always protected by Germany because of how Britain had treated her and whatever that she would be protected by Germany. But this next two. So, so she was, did she want that or I don't know. Britain's like off your family's like off, I suppose you are like, thanks. Thank God somebody wants me. And so it's where her career was. My, and we don't really know, but at some point it was decided, so, so now I have to cut to somebody else. Right. Um, in the story. So I'm going to cut to a guy called John Brown. So John Brown was an active and very successful member of the British union of fascists. Right. Under, as well, mostly in the thirties. Right?
Speaker 4:Mostly now
Speaker 6:John Bryan was like, yeah, I like this kind of fascist young man and whatever. And then join the British union of fascists. And then at some point was like, Oh, we're a bit violent. And it's only in it for the ideas of it. But, uh, but now that I've been approached by M I nine, which doesn't exist anymore. Um, and now I'm a spy. I'm going to stay here and become a really successful fascist. Right. So John Brown at some point was like, this is not cool. I kind of joined young thinking. This was, and now we're a little bit violent and I don't really agree with this actually, now that I know about it. But at this point, John Brown had been, I don't know the exact dates cause that's how the folk spy things work. I don't know when he was inducted, but there was another spy in the British union. Um, the British union of fascists, who was like, Hey man, we're recruiting you and you're in, so you can't leave the British fascists. You have to just stay. So the war breaks out, right. Um, active,
Speaker 4:You probably did make this clear, but I feel like I was like, my mind was going mad. So who was he aspired for? The British government
Speaker 6:In Britain? He, he was a spy for the British government in Britain. What happened was he was a very charismatic, very smart guy who joined as a young man, the British union of fascists thought, Oh yeah, this is cool. Remember they're all off the back of the first world war and whatever. And fascism, you know, sold right. Seems like a great idea. Um, but yeah,
Speaker 4:Well it was in Ireland.
Speaker 6:So he joined and was like, yeah. And then was like, Ooh. Hmm. And at some point, at some point, am I nine? Which I've never heard of M I nine? Uh, we're like, no, no, no, man. You're really good. And you're really good at this. So you have to stay being a fascist and you have to tell us what they're all doing. So, and
Speaker 4:Was, did he get sent over to Germany or
Speaker 6:So, yes. The war broke out and John Brown, the fascist signed up to be in the army. Like lots of them did. Lots of them did like lots of men at that point, you, you know, were like, Oh, you can't really in a way it's like honor and all that stuff. So it wasn't weird. Yeah. And we were signing up to be in the army. Everybody was signing up. In fact it was culturally probably very uncomfortable to not sign up things.
Speaker 4:It'd be like, you'd be walking into the pub and everyone's okay.
Speaker 6:I would think so when their sons are off potentially dying for your country. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're not doing it. So John Brian is like, he signs up and he gets, um, this was part of the plan, but he gets captured in Dunkirk immediately. So in 1940 he gets, he becomes a pow that's fine. He gets taken off to a prisoner of war camp. And at the time the Nazis had these prisoner of war camps, but they also had these things, they call it holiday camps. And you were sent to a holiday camp. If they thought, if the Nazis thought they could turn you. Oh. So if you signed up for war and you were fascist, you were signing up because of like cultural pressure or whatever it was sold to you that like you've been sent here to die because your country doesn't care about you. We would never do that to you. We're not at war with the world Wars, the world's at war with us. You know, if you join for us and when we defeat the world, you will be free or whatever the was one. I'm not sure I wasn't there. Right. But that's what I'm imagining. It's that kind of brain one, that was the idea in these holiday camps was to, you know, turn people or whatever, treat them really well and turn them to the side. So I know John Brown is great because he's quite important in the old, British, fascist thing. And he's easily turned and successfully turned and the Nazis think he's brilliant. So they move him to another prisoner of war camp in 1943, uh, in order to help turn other prisoners. So remember he's still a spy, right? So he's,
Speaker 4:I know I'm like, Jesus, I'm holding out for John. Like John now, man, John, at the same time, obviously you're just pretending, right, John, at the same time
Speaker 6:In Berlin, marshy booth is hanging about. And because she's this mega star and at this point, obviously I think things, I don't, I'm not sure the opera is even happening in Germany. So Hitler's like, Hey Marjorie, you're like the most, you know, you are the quintessential sort of German high art that I want to promote. And you're also like you were born in England, right.
Speaker 4:So I know they're both British. I'm like, Oh, MRJ
Speaker 6:Like go and sing for the troops and like persuade them that this is a great idea. And look at your great life here. So Marjorie agrees to go and sing for the troops in these holiday camps to promote the German ideology and convert them to becoming a member of the Nazi party and turning on Britain. But what Hitler didn't figure out was that Marjorie was already turned.
Speaker 4:Oh, how long?
Speaker 6:Well, because so Marjorie was working for[inaudible] from when we don't. No, that's amazing. But in 1943,
Speaker 4:Oh, it's this or sorry,
Speaker 6:1943. When John Brown arrives at the holiday camp, it was called, um, star leg. I, I assume it's a dry D whatever bit 3d, right. Was the name. It was in Berlin when he arrives. I'm not sure who knew who, but I assume she was told because she was the one on the aid side. So they figure out for whatever reasons I believe it was her because he wrote a memoir. And the only reason we know this is why she's important lads. This is why I'm really nervous about her story is that she is so important and no one's ever written a story down. The only reason we know anything about her, the memoirs of John Brown. Oh, wow. Let me tell you. So I assume Marjorie approached him Marjorie, such a badass. Right? She would go, you not right. She would go in and sing all of these British songs and whatever. And she would always finish the set with the land of hope and glory. And she always wore this dress that was made of poppies. Oh,
Speaker 4:Oh, why was she allowed to, I know like, did they not?
Speaker 6:And she'd been denounced by Britain, I suppose they didn't see it coming. Ah, okay. This is a pretty flower dress she was wearing Kathy. Don't be stupid.
Speaker 4:[inaudible] they might not have even, they were probably just like, eh, yeah, exactly. Pretty flower dress. Oh my God.
Speaker 6:Yeah. So Margie booth is walking in there fully a patriotic in her poppy dress, singing the land of hope and glory. And she always opened where like oil lads I'm Marjorie from Wigan. Yeah. Not from say whenever. Like, but
Speaker 4:You didn't say, Oh, it's probably,
Speaker 6:Didn't say oil
Speaker 4:Kind of wondering about the puppy thing. Right. So I know that the copies are a big symbol of like world war one and I guess, is it now like world war II as well? Like as in, as a kind of a,
Speaker 3:It was just the end of world war one, but I don't know the poppy fields from the, from the, um, okay.
Speaker 4:So it was world war one, but would the people in Germany at this stage, like early 1940s, would they have like, would they know that cultural sort of like significant snow? I mean, there were that too, so I don't know why they wouldn't. I know, but the symbol, I don't know. Oh yeah.
Speaker 3:Well maybe it didn't have the same cultural, like obviously poppies are a huge thing now. Every, we all know what it means. I don't know if they have that in Germany or then if they did. I don't know.
Speaker 6:Right. So where was I?
Speaker 4:Okay. Okay. So, so
Speaker 6:Like a bad-ass thing and land of hope of glory dressing her poppies and John, she meets John Brown. So John Brown has relative freedom. Right? Remember this, there are certain people that are like, Oh, how well does this work? But he has the confidence of the Nazis. He is actively recruiting and turning people for the Nazis. Right. So it's his job and that's the Nazis, you know what I mean? He's a spy. So he to do his job, he has to at least
Speaker 4:Pretend. But
Speaker 6:At the same time he's passing him because he's in these circles and she's in those circles. So she's in the circles that like, if you watched the crown, you know, it season two when, uh, the abdicated King, whatever his name is, is it Edward awkward?
Speaker 4:I never knew that until the crown. It was like no way
Speaker 6:It would have been Marjorie booth that he would have been meeting as in, like she would have been the entertainment.
Speaker 4:Well, just in case people haven't seen the crown or don't know British history. Uh,
Speaker 6:Yes. So Edward, when he abdicated the throne went to met Hitler and this was her being in the, around the thirties. Um, when did the abdicate any is what does it say? 1930, 1936. Right. So he would have been going and at some of the, because it was meant to be a state's visit or whatever it was, it was seen as he would have been entertained by Marjorie booth. Wow. So this is, these are the circles that she was in and on the ground, in the like military camps or in the propaganda, uh, side of things, John Brown was on the ground. And so Marjorie booth would go in, um, and sing and John bran would pass her information to pass on. Cool. So she was like the sport of camel for all this dodgy material, which is like, even makes her a braver. So at one point, John Brown handed her a big pile of documents just before Hitler walked into her dressing room. She shoved them down her dress and sign, like most of the opera, all documents hidden in her corset or whatever. And she became known as the knickers by wow. Because she kept, literally putting things where people wouldn't search. Right. So she like managed to smuggle out all this information on traders or people that had turned or, or like she was at parties where Hitler would like unfold plans. And she was feeding all that back to the British government. She is a hero that you've never heard of. Right. So,
Speaker 4:Oh though, now, you know,
Speaker 6:She's is fine. Are you ready? I'm going to show you a photo of her.
Speaker 4:This is her Marjorie. Oh, she is very prissy. Yes. Very preachy in the prisoner of war
Speaker 6:Singing in her poppy dress. And you can Google that neck, but don't read any text, right?
Speaker 4:Yeah. You get away with, get away with it, you know? Yeah. You be like what? This, this is just pretty things. Pretty flowers. I pretty dress. I'm just, I'm just a girl. Yeah. Wow. And actually there's one here of her in her wedding day, which is cute. Oh,
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 6:She's really pretty. Right. And then I was just saying, you've just Googled her in her Papi dress. I thought I had a printout of her in her pocket yesterday. But look at this lad
Speaker 1:Hitler watching her. Oh wow. Creepy, creepy.
Speaker 6:So late. So no wonder she was disarmed
Speaker 4:Broken because that's pretty bad. Like the, yeah, that looks pretty bad. That's a bad luck. So they, they seem to have like, just in all of these, like maybe not the prisoner camps so much, but like where the troops were in stuff, they always seem to have like women coming in singing patriotic songs. It's like such a big,
Speaker 6:Well, I think you're thinking of when they said in the mid, like, um, Doris Day rally, rather the truth, turn them, uh, to the other side. So, but if it's that idea, like if it's that idea and exactly that. So when, when very Lynn is going in and singing, we'll meet again. No, no. Um, that's the same thing. That margin, it's just the other way round. So this is going on fine. Some of the Nazis are a bit like his John burn is a bit too much freedom as Nate. And do we really trust him? So he's always being watched. And as a result, really his friendship and Marjorie sort of puts her in danger too. And she's constantly being questioned by the Gestapo, but then really frustrating for the Gestapo is always being rescued by Hitler. Who's like, no, no, no, you don't go from my like methadone special, my girl. But in 1945, John Brown, uh, is arrested. He's caught 19 in 1985. John Brown is arrested and tortured and I'm not sure what happens in the timeline, but as a result, they know that Marjorie,
Speaker 4:I don't know if, Hey, we don't, we don't know. Maybe there was a correspondence. Yeah.
Speaker 6:There's correspondence, but Marjorie's time is up. And she is tortured by the guests.
Speaker 1:Oh my God. Oh.
Speaker 6:So she is caught and tortured, but obviously it's the end of the war. And then I don't know how long she's tortured for. Again, all the details are really quiet on this. Uh, there's an air raid and she manages to escape because the building she's in is destroyed. So she's obviously wounded and we can be tortured. Right. So she escapes, uh, the Gestapo and makes her way, Oh God, I can't remember where, but makes her wait and finds these American troops and lads. I. You not, this is real. She starts talking to the Americans and because of her Wigan accent, they think she's German.
Speaker 1:No. Wow. Yes. So the Americans
Speaker 6:Nearly shoot her. They nearly shoot her except that somebody in the Castilla river it's cold is like, Oh no, I think I've been to the North of England. This is what they sound like. This isn't a German trying to speak English. Right.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. That's hilarious. That's funny.
Speaker 6:Well, she is then brought back the Americans, give it back to the birds. And she comes back to Britain where she then, um, because she's a spy, right. So she's brought back as a spy. It's not like she's felt like, so she's protected. She's brought back. She goes to the old Bailey and gives evidence against characters. Like, you know, Lord hahaha. You heard
Speaker 1:Of him. No. So,
Speaker 6:Um, Laura near was, um, really embarrassingly an Irish. Well, he was born in America to Irish parents, uh, and grew up in God.
Speaker 1:Hey, very famous, um, radio.
Speaker 6:And like he had a radio show in Germany. It was called Germany, calling Germany, calling that's the real name. So they named it.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 6:But um, he would give these radio announcements and try to turn people. I think it was all of the same along the lines. Like, Oh, look at you all. Uh, you know, Germany is great and it's, everyone's a war with them. And the rest of the world is just jealous. The rest of the world is sending their troops to death for no reason because they're, they're warring with Germany and all this. And at the end of the war, there's a very famous, like broadcast where he does it completely shitless. But the weird thing is right. He's so like anti British and pro Nazi or whatever, but like he's Hertz like Winston Churchill, unlike helium. It's kind of where family Connie terminate Connie. Eh, it's kind of weird, but Lord hahaha is really terrifying because he has this like half a Chelsea smile. So apparently he became a fascist. He says after he was attacked by German communist, uh, chairman toxic Jewish communists and they slashed his face open
Speaker 1:Is Lord. Ha ha. Just like the name he was born or is it half a smile on his face?
Speaker 6:No. Sorry. His name is William Joyce. Sorry. He was famously known cause his like, um, is it like his radio moniker or whatever was lower ha
Speaker 1:And the reason it's lower. I mean, that's literally like the joker, the reason he was called Laura,
Speaker 6:It was because the Germans thought that that's what English people sounded like Lord art, you know? Um,
Speaker 1:Oh, it had nothing to do with this.
Speaker 6:Yeah. He was captured after the war. He was shot and then brought back to trial and even in trials he was so on remorseful. Okay. Yeah. It looks like his mom was Anglo-Irish. Why, what does Irish
Speaker 4:Don't like, I don't know where he looks at. You know, it looks like this fine candor. I can't explain it. He just, he does. He looks Irish. All right. Oh, he does. Yeah.
Speaker 6:It's terrible. Isn't it? So that's really wow. He looks so Irish.
Speaker 4:Um, Oh Lord. Ha ha talking. Yeah.
Speaker 6:Just before you hear him talking. Um, this was broadcast in Britain and uh, in Ireland, I think he did a different version for our end called I think you'd call Patrick cardigan or something. Um, he would do that one in an Irish accent. Um, he did this one in an English accent. He was a very, very smart guy. Like he's told to psychopath in that like very intelligent, very charismatic, um, very dangerous, really sort of character.
Speaker 4:So he wasn't even a real Lord anyway. No one is,
Speaker 6:He had an audience every night in Britain of like six to 9 million. Really? Yeah. But people would say it's like you on your Q and on-sites Kathy people tuned in to know what the other side were saying. So there is that it wasn't that there was like 6 million slip in Nazi sympathizers sitting in Britain. Lots of people were tuned in to kind of hear what he was saying and yeah.
Speaker 4:And to be outraged, like I sometimes look at things just to be outraged by them. I'm like, Oh yeah,
Speaker 6:Exactly. So it was a bit like that, but he had a huge audience and now you're ready. So this is what he sounded like,
Speaker 7:Okay.
Speaker 6:Oh, that's German don't listen to that. That shirt. I am, that's not him. This is him
Speaker 7:A day calling and calling and dramedy calling. Why wouldn't just drive at the height of sentences. A message said by the[inaudible] and the captain of the British destroyed cost effect on his rescue.[inaudible] for congratulated. And he bought it fast on the shooting men. And second day on flagrantly violating, no lesion. You kind of
Speaker 6:Did, did you hear that?
Speaker 4:Well, I couldn't read it.
Speaker 6:Only someone like Winston Churchill could congratulate himself on shooting unarmed men and breaching Norwegian neutrality. So it was all this sort of shy. I mean, it was like turning it that they were, the enemy Britain was the enemy. Everything Britain did was to, again, it's fake news. It's the Donald Trump fake.
Speaker 4:Can you kinda like reflect on, you know, this time not being completely unique, which our current
Speaker 6:It's kind of terrifying because we've seen it all before,
Speaker 4:Which
Speaker 2:Well, some of us are aware of how, how this has happened before. And what's scary is that a lot of the people that vote for him or not, and that's terrifying that you just have so many people that aren't aware of what propaganda looks like or yes.
Speaker 6:Fascism is like, so this is Lord hahaha is really like fake news that it's like best Jeanette. I mean, what alleged back, um, in a kind of evil psychopath. Gosh.
Speaker 4:So, all right. So tell us why you talked to Oh yeah. Booth was one of the pins
Speaker 6:Just spoke against them because she not only like snuck home. Um, so, so John Brown would have been big wigs with Lord ha in the old propaganda, let's turn everybody over, um, to the Nazis or like let's, you know, make everyone a Nazi sort of way. And she would have, she would have taken that information and passed it on. And she would have known Laura because he was a big celebrity, but she was also a big celebrity. So she, she obviously was a witness for the prosecution and Lord hahaha was one of it was hung, um,
Speaker 4:Hanged, by the way, when you say, I think it's like when someone is really hanged, so
Speaker 6:He died on the 3rd of January, 1946, he was only aged 39 and he was hung hanged, beg, pardon? In one's worth prison. So, but at the very end, right. Do you want to hear what he said? This was his last, he said, he said, these were his last words in death. As in life, I defy the Jews who caused the last war. Uh, and may enemy goes on, may the swastika be raised from the dust? Well
Speaker 4:Hard. Yeah. So what's an. Yeah. Yes.
Speaker 6:He still didn't like the Jews. Um, no, that's fairly strong. Uh, but that was his last word. So he didn't give a. Um, and he was evil.
Speaker 4:So, so then what happened to Marjorie booth? She survived.
Speaker 6:Yes. So the here, so here we go. Right. We're doing exactly what history does and we've totally forgotten Marjorie. We're talking about the men talk about the mannequin. So Marjorie tried to live in England. She was never offered any work ever again.
Speaker 4:People probably still, even though sh yeah, they were like, Hmm.
Speaker 6:You know, everybody knew in the spy world would, if she was this by in the military. So her nationality was, was, was given back to her. I'm not sure if it was ever technically taken away, but it was publicly taken away. You know what I mean? Um, so she was allowed to, to live in Britain, but the mod never came out and said that she was a spy at the time. So when all the men, no. So she tried move back to Wiccan and she was basically, I used to do her family. Nobody wanted to know her. She ended up immigrating to America because she couldn't live in Britain. She couldn't get a job. She couldn't exist.
Speaker 4:She must've gone to America,
Speaker 6:America, and she died in 1952 of breast cancer. And you wonder if the breast cancer came from being tortured by the Gestapo dress and this dress, not just the stress of being a freaking spy for 10 years. And then the stress of not only being as, by not being honored for your work being rejected, rejected, not ever being acknowledged. And
Speaker 4:The only actually ever been honored, never been
Speaker 6:Honored. And the only reason we know she exists and the mod have say she was a spy. Like they, they admit that she was there was because in, um, John Brown died in the sixties, but I think it was in the sixties, but he died later. But he had written down his memoirs that his son published in 1981. Oh wow. Where John Bryan talks about Marjorie booths this by and all of the things that she did. I tried to buy the book lads, but it's 150 quid and I just couldn't stretch to it. But the only place that she's mentioned in history is outside of obviously it's the mod. So her, her, all of the things that she did for them, it's still sealed. So there's no access to her files. All weeds is still sealed. Yeah. All we know is Margie booth was a spy. She was a, bad-ass like brave woman who like all of the other baddest, brave woman has not been honored. Isn't remembered and has been forgotten about for all of, she gave up her life for this. You know what I mean? She was, God, that's so interesting. That's why I'm saying it's no crack. And that's why it's quite short because there's so little information on her. It's kind of disgraceful that there's so little information on her. She's so important. We know nothing about her. I feel like I'm neglecting you guys, but can you see, like from a feminist female point of view, like why do we not know that she, why, why isn't she as opera singers? Why don't we know that there was this mega star hero opera singer?
Speaker 4:The fact that, I mean like, well done to Brown, to Brown John, to John Brown for like writing it down and the memoirs and to his son for publishing them and everything. That's all brilliant. But I mean, like, it sounds a little bit like John Brown got to go live and normal life afterwards and have no, this is not whereas, you know, Marjorie? No, not at all. Not yet.
Speaker 6:Oh. So like hero, right. He was honored in his lifetime for his efforts in the war. Yeah. Like, so that like he should have who should she, anyway, there you go. So this is the zero crack opera bluff episode. Cause I just can't follow important. Very interesting.
Speaker 1:Very, very interesting. She's super cute. She was amazing. She must've been a phenomenal singer, but yeah, she must've been, she managed to the Nazis. I feel like definitely there could be such a good movie made out of that. Like, but you know what I'd like to think that she was, you know, secret identity in America, hopefully telling cool stories in a bar and having a good time. That's my story. Hold on. Very cool. Good story. Yeah. The war hero who wore poppies into a Nazi prisoner of war camp. What a legend. Yeah. Really. Very thanks for the last episode. There you was. Great. Rock is fun. No, it was amazing. I couldn't not do her. Who's signing us out guys. I've talked too much. So when are you guys, Kathy? Okay. So please tweet us at Oh, Bluffs or write to us@operabluffsatgmail.com or what else do we have an Instagram opera Bluffs. Um, please get in Facebook and Facebook, which is what opera Bluffs, the opera Bluffs, the podcast. Thank you very much for listening. Uh, we, we love you. Love you. Bye
Speaker 8:[inaudible]. [inaudible][inaudible].